I was reading these articles recently about how scientists are pursuing breakthroughs that could extend the human life span to one hundred twenty.1
Examples of which could include devising drug cocktails that get rid of senescent cells and filtering old blood to remove molecules that inhibit healing.There’s some part of people that thinks they can cheat death — and, of course, you can’t. But what do you think about the prospect of extending the human life span? I don’t want to live to be 120. I have spent enough time around people who are close to 100, over 100, to know that once you start burying your children, you’re ready. Personally, I’ve never met someone 100 or older who still wants to be alive. I have this analogy that I did a TikTok2
Vlahos has 1.7 million followers on TikTok, where she posts about her experience as a hospice nurse and often responds to questions about death and dying.on. This is from having a conversation with someone over 100, and her feeling is that you start with your Earth room when you’re born: You have your parents, your grandparents, your siblings. As you get older, your Earth room starts to have more people: You start making friends and college roommates and relationships. Then you start having kids. And at some point, people start exiting and going to the next room: the afterlife. From what she told me, it’s like you get to a point when you’re older that you start looking at what that other room would be, the afterlife room,3
According to a 2021 Pew Research survey, 73 percent of American adults say they believe in heaven.and being like, I miss those people. It’s not because you don’t love the people on Earth, but the people you built your life with are no longer here. I have been around so many people who are that age, and a majority of them — they’re ready to go see those people again.
“The In-Between” also has to do with the experience of being in between uncertainty and knowing. But how much uncertainty is there for you? Because in the book you write about things that you can’t explain, like people who are close to death telling you that they’re seeing their dead loved ones again. But then you write, “I do believe that our loved ones come to get us when we pass.”4
From Vlahos’s book: “I don’t think that we can explain everything that happens here on Earth, much less whatever comes after we physically leave our bodies. I do believe that our loved ones come to get us when we pass, and I don’t believe that’s the result of a chemical reaction in our brain in those final hours.
”So where is the uncertainty? The uncertainty I have is what after this life looks like. People ask me for those answers, and I don’t have them. No one does. I feel like there is something beyond, but I don’t know what it is. When people are having these in-between experiences of seeing deceased loved ones, sometimes it is OK to ask what they’re seeing. I find that they’ll say, “Oh, I’m going on a trip,” or they can’t seem to find the words to explain it. So the conclusion I’ve come to is whatever is next cannot be explained with the language and the knowledge that we have here on Earth.
Do these experiences feel religious to you? No, and that was one of the most convincing things for me. It does not matter what their background is — if they believe in nothing, if they are the most religious person, if they grew up in a different country, rich or poor. They all tell me the same things. And it’s not like a dream, which is what I think a lot of people think it is. Like, Oh, I went to sleep, and I had a dream. What it is instead is this overwhelming sense of peace. People feel this peace, and they will talk to me, just like you and I are talking, and then they will also talk to their deceased loved ones. I see that over and over again: They are not confused; there’s no change in their medications. Other hospice nurses, people who have been doing this longer than me, or physicians, we all believe in this.
Do you have a sense of whether emergency-room nurses5
Who, because of the nature of their jobs, are more likely than hospice nurses to see violent, painful deaths.report similar things? I interned in the E.R., and the nurse I was shadowing said that no one who works in the E.R. believes in an afterlife. I asked myself: Well, how do I know who’s correct? How am I supposed to know? Are the people in the church that I was raised with6
Vlahos was raised in an Episcopalian family. She now refers to herself, as so many do, as spiritual rather than religiousmore correct than all these people? How are you supposed to know what’s right and what’s not?
But you’ve made a choice about what you believe. So what makes you believe it? I totally get it: People are like, I don’t know what you’re talking about. So, OK, medically someone’s at the end of their life. Many times — not all the time — there will be up to a minute between breaths. That can go on for hours. A lot of times there will be family there, and you’re pretty much just staring at someone being like, When is the last breath going to come? It’s stressful. What is so interesting to me is that almost everyone will know exactly when it is someone’s last breath. That moment. Not one minute later. We are somehow aware that a certain energy is not there. I’ve looked for different explanations, and a lot of the explanations do not match my experiences.
That reminds me of how people say someone just gives off a bad vibe. Oh, I totally believe in bad vibes.
But I think there must be subconscious cues that we’re picking up that we don’t know how to measure scientifically. That’s different from saying it’s supernatural. We might not know why, but there’s nothing magic going on. You don’t have any kind of doubts?
None. Really? That’s so interesting. You know, I read your article with the atheist.7
“How to Live a Happy Life, From a Leading Atheist,” an interview with the philosopher Daniel C. Dennett, published in August.I feel like you pushed back on him.about:blank
There are so many things in our lives, both on the small and the big scale, that we don’t understand. But I don’t think that means they’re beyond understanding. OK, you know what you would like? Because I know that you’re like, “I believe this,” but you seem to me very interested; you’re not just set in your ways. Have you ever heard that little story about two twins in a womb?8
Known as the parable of the twins, this story was popularized by the self-help author Dr. Wayne W. Dyer in his 1995 book “Your Sacred Self: Making the Decision to Be Free.”I’m going to totally butcher it, but essentially it’s two twins who can talk in the womb. One twin is like, “I don’t think that there is any life after birth.” And the other is like, “I don’t know; I believe that there is something after we’re born.” “Well, no one’s ever come back after birth to tell us that there is.” “I think that there’s going to be a world where we can live without the umbilical cord and there’s light.” “What are you talking about? You’re crazy.” I think about it a lot. Do we just not have enough perspective here to see what could come next? I think you’ll like that story.
For the dying people who don’t experience what you describe — and especially their loved ones — is your book maybe setting them up to think, like: Did I do something wrong? Was my faith not strong enough? When I’m in the home, I will always prepare people for the worst-case scenario, which is that sometimes it looks like people might be close to going into a coma, and they haven’t seen anyone, and the family is extremely religious. I will talk to them and say, “In my own experience, only 30 percent of people can even communicate to us that they are seeing people.” So I try to be with my families and really prepare them for the worst-case scenario. But that is something I had to learn over time.about:
Have you thought about what a good death would be for you? I want to be at home. I want to have my immediate family come and go as they want, and I want a living funeral. I don’t want people to say, “This is my favorite memory of her,” when I’m gone. Come when I’m dying, and let’s talk about those memories together. There have been times when patients have shared with me that they just don’t think anyone cares about them. Then I’ll go to their funeral and listen to the most beautiful eulogies. I believe they can still hear it and are aware of it, but I’m also like, Gosh, I wish that before they died, they heard you say these things. That’s what I want.
You know, I have a really hard time with the supernatural aspects, but I think the work that you do is noble and valuable. There’s so much stuff we spend time thinking about and talking about that is less meaningful than what it means for those close to us to die. I have had so many people reach out to me who are just like you: “I don’t believe in the supernatural, but my grandfather went through this, and I appreciate getting more of an understanding. I feel like I’m not alone.” Even if they’re also like, “This is crazy,” people being able to feel not alone is valuable.